Sunday, July 13, 2008

Marilyn Vos Savant and Pascal Revisited


Earlier I posted a video of Richard Dawkins dealing with Pascal's wager, but while researching another idea for an article I came across Marilyn Vos Savant's approach to Pascal's Wager. You may recognize Vos Savant's name because she has gained some notoriety as the person with the highest IQ, coming in at well over 200. I then started to research Vos Savant more in depth and what I found was pretty interesting. First, people really don't like this woman, for very little good reason. It seems that her unasked-for title has placed her on a pedestal that everyone seems incredibly eager to chop down.

Anyway here is her answer to Pascal's problem. Note: this is off of a website because it was featured in Parade Magazine in the 1990s, a time period they do not have archived on their website.
"Pascal's argument implies that the best bet is to join whatever religion makes the most promises." According to the site that I got this from, she also challenged Pascal's assumption that if God does not exist, the skeptic loses nothing by believing in Him, she instead claims that Pascal "lost the remainder of a truly luminous life, and all Earthly lives are short." Since the first quote might not make immediate sense, I will try to explore it. She is asserting that Pascal was saying, "According to Christianity if you believe, you go to a really great place, so why not just believe, then you get to go to a really great place if you're right, and if you're wrong and there really is nothing what was the harm?" Whereas Dawkins states that the problem with Pascal's wager is, "Ok but which do we believe?" Vos Savant is stating that Pascal's argument is just the equivalent of saying, "Look we're giving the best prize for belief, so you should believe."

Imagine different religions having different ideas of heaven. For example, what if religion A said, "if you believe, you live in heaven for 100 years, then you really die," and religion B said, "you live in heaven for 1000 years, then you really die." You can imagine someone from religion B saying, "well you should believe in our God because if you don't you lose the 1000 years in heaven. Even if you might be right, yours is a foolish bet because you'll still only 'win' 100 years in heaven. So you should believe in us because at least you have a chance at 1000 years in heaven." Vos Savant's point (I think) is that neither of those arguments go to the truth of the religion, they are merely engaging in an imaginary arms race. The wonderful thing about imaginary races, however, is that you can just skip to the end, you don't actually have to build anything. This is what Christianity has done - they've simply said, "let's skip to the end and say they go to greatest place you can imagine for eternity, and to make it better let's make the price of not betting on us eternity in the worst place you can imagine. That oughtta tip the odds in our favor." One can see this concept reflected in the different religions, most controversially in the "72 virgins" concept in Islam. It's like they're trying to up the ante. "Not only do you get eternity in heaven, but we're going to give you a signing bonus of 72 virgins." Admittedly, the supposed "virgin" concept probably did come from a mistranslation of "white raisins" but the fact that the religion seized on the virgin concept so completely, I believe is quite telling.

In summary, I think what Vos Savant was saying (much like Dawkins actually) is that religion, like any other theory, is about truth, and Pascal's wager isn't about truth, it's about who has made up the biggest prize for belief. She's saying, "if that's how you want to play it, fine, the Earth Goddess Akka came to me in a vision and said, if you believe in me, you get to go to heaven for eternity, and heaven is a place that's more beautiful than you can imagine... times two." Should we now believe in Akka because her heaven is twice as good as a heaven that is merely more beautiful than you can imagine? I mean if we don't believe in Akka, we risk missing out on a truly mind blowing experience, in exchange for a chance to win a merely awesome experience.

But the real reason I was researching Vos Savant, was with respect to the issue of religion and intelligence. The general argument seems to be over whether non-religious people tend to be more intelligent than religious people. But I find these studies uninteresting, even when they find that non-religious people are a little smarter than religious people. The problem is that scoring an average of 6 points better on an IQ test, doesn't really mean anything. What, the person knows a couple more countries? They were able to put a puzzle together a couple seconds faster? Who cares? What I think might be somewhat more enlightening is looking at the absolute end of the spectrum. What do the absolute smartest people think about religion?

What I found was somewhat disappointing. For one, apparently once you get into genius territory, the tests seem to be less reliable, especially when the genius in question has never taken an IQ test or released the results, which seems to be a common feature of super-geniuses. My main research subjects were Steven Hawking and Albert Einstein, both of whom are widely recognized as two of the smartest people to have ever lived. The disappointing thing was that no one really knows what their IQs is/were. But most people place Einstein's at between 160 and 180, and similar numbers were given for Hawking.

An IQ score of 90-109 is normal, and an IQ of under 70 is mentally retarded. A score over 140 means genius or near-genius. 30 points is the difference between normalcy and retardation. It fascinates me that there are, or have been people, who are so advanced that they are 30 points above the smartest among us. Compared to Einstein, Hawking, Vos Savant, William James Sidis (200), and David Hume (180), not only are we severely mentally handicapped, but even geniuses are bordering on mental retardation. I think that we should look at these people in this way. At the risk of offending people, we all know that a mentally retarded person should listen to, and believe, what a person of normal intelligence is saying to them, assuming they are being truthful. A mentally retarded person may not grasp why the Earth is round, but they should trust us when we tell them that it is. So too should we give great deference to what these super-geniuses have to say. And when it comes to religion, these people tend to have remarkably little to say. Some of them never talk about it (Vos Savant), and some of them hated it (Sidis), but it is/was clearly not of great (or even minimal) importance to them. That being said, my investigation was admittedly cursory, and I only looked at modern geniuses. It is important to note that there was a time when most of the very brightest people were religious people, however, that was a very different time and place. It was a time when the only viable avenue for the pursuit of knowledge was through the church (something for which the church must admittedly be given great credit) as well as a time when religious belief was rarely questioned and scientific knowledge was barely existent.

Finally, one cannot bring up Vos Savant in a discussion of religion without discussing her controversial comment: “Americans prefer to elect Presidents whose value systems grow from their religious beliefs. (That’s why an atheist — whose values are chosen, not established — has never been elected.) We expect the President to act on his values. So this is not the same as mixing church and state.” Many atheists were upset at this comment, but I think that is more a reflection of the oversensitivity of our age, and less a reflection of the statement. Though she might not have said it exactly as she should have, I think she is right. Atheist's do make up their own values (which is a good thing!) and Christians (the voting majority) don't like that! She's not saying they're right and she's not saying Atheists are bad. She's saying people elect people with similar values to themselves, and Christianity makes that easy. I think that reading the comment any other way requires a distortion of her words. I don't think her statement is anti-Atheist, and from the hour I spent researching her on the web, I don't think she is remotely religious, which kind of deflates the argument that she is anti-Atheist. Considering her strong emphasis on reason (she wrote the book The Power of Logical Thinking: Easy Lessons in the Art of Reasoning…and Hard Facts about Its Absence in Our Lives), her objection to Pascal's Wager and the absence of any religion-related remarks by her, I would bet a lot of money that she is not religious.

In short, my point is that if you look at the truly massive intellects from the modern age - whether it's those I mentioned or John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Edison, etc. - you find a remarkable absence of religious belief. Many of these last few were Deists, but really what is a deist? They do not believe in any kind of personal God like Jesus, their God is merely the God of the unknown. It was the name they gave to that which they could not understand. For all intents and purposes, they were non-religious. We need to remind people that compared to the greats, we are mentally handicapped and so should follow their lead instead of using our stunted minds to wonder off on our own.

12 comments:

Steve said...

I like your topic. Also, I am not a believer in the supernatural.

However, to use your logic that we should do what smart people do. Consider this, Marilyn Savant was married at 16. Should we do the same? She dropped out of college. Would that serve everyone well?

Unfortunately, it may be that religion (like college) is useful for the less intelligent since they may not be able to figure things out for themselves as well.

eternian said...

What is your evidence that "people" don't like this woman with very little good reason? I can easily tell you why she is disliked: She doesn't glorify God for the outstanding things he has given her which she doesn't deserve. Stop judging by your personal hypocritical arbitrary conveniently-self-suiting standard, and use God's. If you can't figure out what it is, try reading the Bible and accept advice and asking God to help you understand. Pride comes before a fall.

eternian said...

"Unfortunately, it may be that religion (like college) is useful for the less intelligent since they may not be able to figure things out for themselves as well."

And it may also be that you're a massive idiot who makes stupid "well maybe elephant's fly out my butt" because you actually thing feeling that you are wise and trying to sound wise makes you wise. The delusional infantile idiot who can't figure out the obvious IS you.

Unfortunately, it may be that irreligion (like college) is useful for the less intelligent, since they may not be able to figure out things for themselves as well.

See how stupid you are Steve? Big idiot how if I can simply reverse your argument does that make me right? You're a moron, like all irreligious people, you're a moron, because you just by feelings, parrot defeated arguments without CARING if those arguments are true or not, too arrogant and in love with your feelings and opinions to even type into a search engine a few words to see if your "well maybes" have been refuted, or to FINISH YOUR POINT. Stop misdefining words like religion moron, it doesn't mean "Well maybe might be a substitute for thinking, uh cuz Steve the narcissist feels so, and he's God cuz uh God feels things are true and that makes it true, uh yeah, me is religious genius Steve."

eternian said...

Oh I meant, "think" not "thing" up there.

eternian said...

And Mr. Non Religious poster and Marilyn: Pascal's Wager isn't "Join whatever religion makes the most promises." gullible morons. Why arey you so stupid? G let me think: Oh, you reject the source of truth. Here's a better understanding of Pascal's wager, which your genius friend was too stupid and careless about moral and religious truths to bother understanding:

Marilyn Misunderstands Pascal's Wager: http://www.wiskit.com/marilyn/atheist.html

For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the
scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:19-21

For the wisdom of this world is
foolishness in God's sight.
As it is written:

"He catches the wise
in their craftiness"
1 Corinthians 3:19

For the foolishness of God is wiser
than man's wisdom, and the weakness
of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Corinthians 1:25

eternian said...

And Mr. Non Religious Poster, ignorant of religion: Why are you showing huxters on the top of your blog? So those two men, pentacostals, represent all Christians? You're a true conniving, stereotyping gullible idiot. But it is true that you irreligious are responsible for over 150,000,000 deaths in the past 100 years, and millions more on going if you include the babies you are always murdering, and since you approve of Catholics murdering their babies no doubt or help it along by promoting doubt about God, which then includes doubt about "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Love your enemies" and "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" and "STOP JUDGING BY MERE APPEARANCES AND MAKE A RIGHT JUDGMENT" you are also guilty of the abortions committed by those who religious.

Sadly for you, that's not stereotyping, it's logic.

Keep promoting the murder of babies without even anesthatizing or burying them with diginity if you want to keep being the ignored voice. It's your groups own baby-murdering fault that you are "ignored" (how are you ignored when you're magical evilutionary, big bomb and magic life creating soup of imaginary randomness dominates atheist and liberal domintimated universities and atheist dominated governemnts? Silly lying idiot.

eternian said...

Oh and, why are you saying "non religious united" when you're non religious always boasts about being divided, about not having the same beliefs? So what is it you're trying to unite about? You're very minds are contradiction. You can't get your act together and wonder why you are "ignored"? And yet you say "The church is so divided that no one can know the truth"
and "whose right then?" YOU'RE ALL DIVIDED, BY EACH INDIVIDUAL, YOU BOAST ABOUT IT! AND YOU SAY THAT TO DENOMINATIONS WHICH ARE UNITED? Blind hypocrites.

Steidemeister56 said...

As far as i know she´s a member of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry
whichs members are almost exlusivly atheists and agnostics and ,as the name says, all sceptics so she can hardly be called religous.
Members of the CIS are for example richard dawkins, daniel dennett, christopher hitchens, sam harris, carl sagan ... etc. etc. just that you get the picture.

Steidemeister56 said...

sorry, sam harris and christopher hitchens are seemingly not members of the csi, my fault. But other famous atheists such as francis crick and steven pinker

equsnarnd said...

Your main thesis that people with lower IQ's should follow the lead of people with higher IQ's is untenable.
What people of any intellectual capacity should follow is the 'argument' to the best of their ability. We don't know enough about this category called 'intelligence' to pay any deference to it per se. One might say the intelligence of the person in question is only as good as the 'evidence and logic' permit of the idea put forth. There have certainly been evil geniuses that no one should follow.

Steve said...

Maybe you're reading into my comment too much eternia.

I used to be a fundamentalist Christian until I was able to see that much of the Bible is not true and that even has some very bad advice in places. Now, I read things with my brain "plugged in" these days. Many statements in the Bible are beautiful and worth observing. I take exception with the genocide and slaughtering by Yahweh and the Hebrews, but myth is to be expected in such writings. Many have simply mistaken myth for literal truth (as in reality).

My path includes a spiritual facet for lack of any better word. I also find inspiration from many spiritual and philosophical writings. My concept of the divine is mine alone, no one else needs to be concerned about it.

Mostly, I see compassion, tolerance and living in the present moment as a simple and healing way we can all try to live despite doctrinal differences. Seeing what we have in common as humans may generate more peace within us and in the world.

Peace.

hynzerelli said...

hey brainless religious whack jobs go follow your charlatans & there 2k year old book of myths.Keep making them rich & wasting your time.I'll agree w/ Marilyn,Einstein,Hawkins,& Richard Dawkins.Bravo..... bravissimo... Kudos to her.Religion's has been holding back science forever.god/ religion is the longest running hoax ever put over on humanity used by charlatans to control & manipulate the masses bilking them out of funds & there lives.